Grove Pointe, 2BR/2BA 1136 square foot, asking $649K

This unit is on the 2nd floor - we stopped by three weeks ago when they had an open-house on Sunday afternoon.  We were the only ones there and was able to speak to the agent exclusively.  We also signed the check-in sheet and noticed that maybe ten names or so listed (so not a whole lot of traffic).  Our thoughts on this building is it is in a very good location, immediately right outside the PATH station with Starbucks and Duane Reade embedded in the retail base of the condo.  The building is split into two parts, one being condominiums and the other being rentals.  The condo and rental are divided by separate entrances, but both share the same parking garage below, as well as the same gym/outdoor pool.  We did think the price was a bit high, considering the comparables within the neighborhood (Gulls Cove, A Condominiums).  In the $650K range, there are quite a good number of options to choose from.

In summary, we rate this particular unit an aggregate score of 7.5:

Developer Reputation	7.5	SK Properties is a reputable builder, with much experience.
Quality	7	Finishes/quality are good - again, nothing spectacular like full-on luxury buildings.  Everything is pretty standard, although the lack of central air may bother some buyers.  It has the cheaper in-wall units that are built into the windows.  Kitchen is spacious, with lots of cabinet space.  Standard appliances and washer/dryer IN unit.  Hallways were a bit drab, felt dark and a bit cheap.  Lobby is quite nicely appointed though.
Layout	9	The layout is very good, as there is not much wasted space.  The floorplan can be seen here.  Other buildings have balconies/terraces at this price range.  Ceilings looked to be about 9'4, more or less average.  Living room was spacious, but not overwhelming large.  Sufficient room for entertaining (couches, flat screen tv) and dining table.  Bedrooms were functionally large, but not huge.
Location	9	The area is relatively developed.  Grove Pointe certainly has proximity to PATH going for it - and is very convenient.  (Location in most parts of downtown JC would be a 9).
Amenities	8	Features gym, pool, and concierge/doorman services as well parking space (either monthly or to own).  Commons charges of around $700, to be expected for an unit this size and in this price range.
Views	5	2nd floor so views are not good.  South-facing and looks right into the Grove Street PATH plaza area.  Does seem well-insulated enough from outside noises, but I can imagine when there are bands and activities going on in the plaza, that the unit can be quite noisy.
Sunlight	7	Good sunlight, as it is south-facing, but windows are not "floor-to-ceilings" as found in other condos like in Gulls Cove, A Condominiums, Waldo.  A bit disappointing at this price range.
$ PSF Value	7	Not a bad value, considering all told - the proximity to the PATH, a good size layout.  Currently selling for $571 psf - which is on-par and/or slightly below other comparable units in the area.  The building certainly is not as nice luxurious or nice as the other comparables though, which is why they are going for higher (additionally these other units may have better views, such as waterfront views, and perhaps located in a different neighborhood).
Unit Potential	7.5	With a lot of condo supply coming onboard, this unit is priced just about right.  In 5 years time, it may be difficult to sell this 2BR/2BA because of the expanding condo development.  If school systems improve in JC, expect to see more interest in the 2BR segment of downtown JC.  Again, this unit definitely has location going for it.
Area Potential	8	Pretty centrally located to all the action in Grove Street - should be good as the area develops
Average Score	7.5	GrovestreetJC bottom-line: best thing going is its proximity to the PATH. But if that's the best thing, then you really need to investigate what else would make this building a compelling buy over other luxury condos in the area (both new and pre-construction). Best to hold off on this unit and see what the market brings forth in next 12-18 months.

To all potential Jersey City condo buyers and rental tenants.

Please be aware of Kannekt.com, because of the lack of transparency in the forums and overzelous moderating by the moderator.

Numerous comments, from this blog and other commentators, have been deleted.  Truthful, honest commentary about condos, restaurants, etc all have been deleted.  Any negative feedback, however honest or useful to the general public, vanishes within minutes/hours of the post. We have posted many times on the website on information we feel is useful. Other Kannekt users have also leapt to the defense of this blog, but quickly shutdown by the moderator. We can't help but feel grave injustice at this type of "controlling totalitarian communistic state" type of forum.

Therefore, if you are looking for reliable information on Kannekt, please be careful.  We are not looking to create controversy or fan a war - but the censorship on Kannekt is becoming ridiculous.  All we ask is for non-deletion of valuable information that is shared by JC residents.

A reputable non-censored forum in Jersey City at JCList also reports the same issue:

http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5476&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0

This morning we saw the advertising campaign of Zipcar at the Grove Street PATH station (Marin Blvd entrance).  A rather bored looking Zipcar representative sat on a stool, and was passing out Zipcar pamphlets to pedestrians and commuters. It appears that, per the voice of downtown JC residents (this blog itself faithfully petitioned Zipcar many times to expand in downtown JC), have finally expanded to two more locations in downtown JC.  Prior to this, Zipcar locations were already in JC but one was closer to Exchange Place, and there was one location in Newport.  Depending on where you lived, these locations could be a 5-7 min walk, particularly if you lived closer to the Grove PATH station.  With the two new locations, it makes it even easier to have a Zipcar readily available.

The new two locations are:

1. Bay Street (btwn Washington & Greene), likely within the parking garage of the Trump Plaza condominium tower.  Currently, there is only one BMW 328 for rental here.
   
   
2. 155 Montgomery and Marin Blvd, probably one of the garages here.  Currently there is only one Scion xD.
   

Our guess is that Zipcar is coming in slow, testing these two locations first by putting a mere one car at each location.  Certainly they will scale up the supply of Zipcars if there is sufficient demand.  As Trump Plaza has not opened yet for unit owners to move in, there's also no need to have a full supply of Zipcars yet.  The Trump Zipcar location should also prove to be convenient for A-Condominium unit owners as well.

We currently have a Zipcar membership, and have found it to be very useful for Ikea runs and shopping for large items (when the Newport Mall isn't sufficient).

Bottomline: The two new Zipcar locations make it even more convenient for downtown JC residents, as there is simply more Zipcar coverage in the area.  With the continued development of the neighborhood, Zipcar looks to have made a great investment in expanding its locations.  Everyone wins!

As sourced from fellow blog NewYorkSixth.

There are a number of farmers markets operating this summer.  We had a chance to visit the Grove Street Farmers Market this past Monday.  Apparently we had been expecting someting similar in size to the Farmers Markets in Union Square (Manhattan),  and the Grove Street market was much smaller in scale.  However, there were still several stands setup and a good number of vendors selling a nice variety of foods, produce, and other interesting items (such as olive oil, pickles, etc).  There was quite a good amount of foot traffic, of people walking by and stopping to shop and check-out the different offerings. 

It should be very exciting times for the farmer markets this summer, as word of mouth spreads and as more people shop for produce locally. 


Grove Street PATH Plaza
Mondays
4pm to 8pm

Hamilton Park
Wednesdays
4pm to 8pm

Journal Square
Wednesdays
10:30am to 7:30pm

Van Vorst Park
Saturday
8am to 2pm

Interesting article in the Observer on the salary demographic of the early 20's workforce in Manhattan.  Basically, job demand and real estate/apt demand will continue to increase - too many workers chasing too few jobs (causing wages to actually decrease since the 1970's! an oversupply of workers = companies can pay less) and too many workers chasing too little housing (not enough housing = rents and real estate prices soar!). However, the article seems to take the median salary, and it covers a range of professions. In the finance profession, the average post-college grad generally makes between $55K and $65K starting salary. It would be interesting to see the detailed data for this study, and isolate on certain industries.

It's absolutely unbelievable that the attraction of New York City has over post-college graduates.  The lure, glamour, and prestige of living and working in the greatest city in the world is always going to be there.  There is no stopping the flood of 20's people who move to NYC from all over the world.  The true issue is that there will always be an influx of new blood here, who are here to chase their dreams, and live the city lifestyle -- even as those who are older begin to move out (whether it's because of being priced out, looking for peace/quiet, better schools etc). The article does state that many of these early 20's are being funded by Daddy's monthly checks, which is not surprising - given that it's near impossible to survive on $35K and yet live in the city on your own.

The wage decrease since the 1970's is the most shocking tidbit of this entire article.  Wages have certainly not kept pace with cost of living/inflation.  In fact, six figure salaries in New York City doesn't get you very far, once you factor in rent/mortgage payments, cost of food, etc. The overall demand and increase for jobs and housing in NY inevitably has led to the appreciation of areas such as Brooklyn, LIC, and Jersey City/Hoboken. What's next once these places appreciate to near Manhattan levels?

As reported on Racked.com, the Tribeca Whole Foods is finally breaking ground, and is slated to open its doors July 9th!  The location is 101 Warren Street.  With the rumors of Whole Foods in downtown Jersey City currently as "we are working on some stuff in JC" (see previous post) and  further confirmation from Whole Food reps, this would likely be the closest Whole Food to downtown Jersey City that is accessible by public transportation.

According to Hopstop, the total commute time from the Tribeca Whole Foods to Grove Street PATH is approximately 20 minutes (including 4 min walking to WTC PATH, waiting for train which hopstop puts as a generous 7 minute wait, which is probably worst case scenario, and 7 min riding train time, and 2 min walking out of the station)..  Time will tell if we will begin to see more granny type carts on the PATH, lugging groceries from Whole Foods - although we hypothesize that it is still a bit of a trek for your downtown JC resident to solely go into the city for the point of grocery shopping.  Personally we would prefer to stick to the enormous and cheap Shoprite that downtown JC already has.  Of course, we wouldn't be surprised to see downtown JC residents picking some things up after work from the Tribeca Whole Foods, on the way to the PATH.

One of the great things of downtown Jersey City is the diversity of excellent restaurants. To date, we have sampled a variety of the restaurants and have been pleasantly, and in some cases, strongly impressed. Here are just a few of the few that we like. Plenty more to come that we can highly recommend, but here are three for the time being.

Soul Flavors
Hands-down, perhaps the best soul food restaurant in metro NYC area - easily besting some of the best restaurants in Harlem (too touristy, going off of reputation often).  Prices are reasonable (on average $15 for entree). This is a frequent spot to take visiting friends, as the food simply blows away any other soul food restaurant. Friends always, without fail, walk away raving about the food. There is a reason that it is on Kanye West's top five favorite list of restaurants. We highly recommend the Buttermilk Marinated Fried Chicken, Orange Glazed Slow Cooked Pork Ribs. Don't forget the utterly mouth-watering biscuits and intensely rich corn-bread. Their Ginger Beer (non-alcoholic) packs quite a punch too. Located at 354 Grove Street. Website here

Grand Sichuan
A genuinely good, extremely tasty Chinese food restaurant. It bills itself as reinventing Chinese food a la Sichuan style (a province in China). It was featured in the latest issue of New York magazine. Much of Chinese food in the United States is sadly "Americanized" and is confined to the hole in the wall takeout joints. The owner of Grand Sichuan (with two other restaurants in the city) wants to change that - with the introduction of higher end, authentic Chinese food. We frequently eat here, perhaps once a week. Everything we've had has been very good - highly recommend the Sichuan Wonton with Red Oil, Dry and Sateed String Beans (trust us!), Red Cooking Pork with Chestnuts, Eggplant with Garlic Sauce. Often packed with expatriate Chinese professionals working in NY or Chinese families driving in from inner Jersey - the food is reasonably authentic and priced just right. Be warned, some of their food is extremely spicy, even for spicy lovers. Their Ma Po Tofu is practically served on flames. Located at 342 Grove Street. Website here

Nha Trang
A delicious, and very cheap Vietnamese restaurant. It has a location in Chinatown in Manhattan, however we feel that the Jersey City one is of better food quality and more authentic (a true testimony is the many, many Vietnamese families that eat here regularly). The staff is courteous (nothing exceptional), but the food is quite good at a very cheap price. Recommended dishes would be: Marinated Beef Cubes or any type of Grilled Pork Chop dish. Pho is quite standard fare, but still savory and a great comfort food. Hard to go wrong here at these prices. Located at 249 Newark Avenue.

The new Greenwich Street and Vesey Street PATH exit is slated to be finished by this Monday - according to a conversation we had last night with one of the construction managers onsite at WTC. When the original story was released earlier this week (link) that, the new exit area was a rubble filled mess. In the past several daysdays, the site - thanks to construction crews working faithfully around the clock 24/7 - has transformed rapidly. Already one can see the overlying structure of the roof.. From speaking to the construction manager, the stairs are already in place (it will directly within the turnstiles of the current station - imagine going go JC and entering the turnstiles -- on the very far right of the trains, there are a series of large walls that are hiding the new stairs that will lead to Greenwich Street).

Although though the construction is slated to finish Monday, the construction manager was unable to confirm if PATH commuters would be allowed to use this exit immediately. Simply finishing an exit is vastly different than opening it for public use.

The new exit is an immense boon to the thousands of employed workers of the World Financial Center towers (with American Express, Deloitte and Merrill Lynch being the largest) who are commuting and exiting at WTC. The current exit structure means, on average a 9 minute walk from the current station exit on Church Street to the entrance of World Financial Center. With the new exit, approximately 5 min of walking time will be saved for those employees of the aforementioned companies. In fact, it will be a jaunty and quick 3.5 min walk (approx 3 city blocks) from the new Greenwich St exit to the WFC towers.  See the functional (if rather crude) map that illustrates the old walk in red, versus the new walk in green.  Having timed the walk ourselves multiple times, this will assuredly save 5 minutes (due to the need to climb lenghty stair[masters] within the station to reach Church Street.)  5 minutes may not sound like a whole lot, but you're walking 3.5 minutes as opposed to almost 9 - it makes a huge difference.



It certainly looks like the PATH fare increase is directly at work here.... with noticeable fruit as the entire WTC station upgrade and Freedom Tower construction is in full swing. Additionally the PATH will be unveiling its new state-of-the-art trains in the 2nd half of 2008, which will mean smoother and faster commutes and even more train frequency (already we have quite sufficient frequency but we aren't complaining if this means more).

Overall this is an excellent win for JC residents who work downtown, who are directly benefiting from the PATH's desire and willingness to meet its customers needs.

Yes, it's true.  According to an email that was sent to Whole Food's northern NJ real estate development group, their reply was:

"We are working on some stuff in jc. The exact location is still under wraps. Stay tuned."

No time frame or location was given as of this point, but this is another sign that developers are betting heavily on the revitalization of downtown Jersey City.

Foot traffic around Grove Street has considerably increased in the past month or so -- newly constructed condominiums are closing (Gulls Cove, A Condominiums) and luxury rentals are beginning to fill up (Grove Pointe, 50 Columbus). Additionally, the moving in of Trump Plaza residents in the coming months will only serve to bring in more residents.

Like it or not, downtown Jersey City is rapidly changing. Yes, we all know that JC has been "up and coming" for years and years - yet never has this statement been truer than today. Downtown JC has always had terrific access to the city, but probably not enough residents to fully warrant retail infrastructure (notice that many restaurants are closed on Mondays, or won't serve lunch Mon/Tues/Wed - simply not enough demand thus far). With Gulls Cove, Grove Pointe, and 50 Columbus bringing in residents, the landscape of Jersey City is radically changing. Bank on downtown JC completely transforming and looking vastly different over the next 3-5 years. Those who are buying in now should expect to see their neighborhood go from "up and coming" to "arrived." While it is still too early to tell the end result of JC (whether it becomes a Newport, Hoboken, or perhaps a Park Slope type area - strictly based on population demographics), for sure the area is changing extremely quickly. What has been noticeable has been a sharp increase in the number of people walking dogs, and the number of strollers on the streets in downtown JC. This certainly bodes well as it looks like residents are willing to plant themselves and their families in downtown Jersey City (again, as stressed, due to the perfect mix of urban suburban lifestyle).

In other news, the Starbucks located in the base of Grove Pointe is all set to open this week (speaking to the store manager, they are aiming for Thursday). This bodes well for the entire area, and will probably serve as a "testing" of downtown JC to see if there will be sufficient foot traffic to adequately support the franchise. If the Starbucks can thrive, look for additional national retail to start coming in. Also in the base of Grove Pointe is the Duane Reade that looks about 70% complete, and also what looks to be a bank on the eastside of Grove Pointe (opposite side of Starbucks). A Grove Pointe dry cleaner is also set to be opening this spring, so looks like Grove Pointe's ground floor retail has been all leased out. Very positive for downtown JC.

In a city fragmented and divided often by just blocks, New Yorker's are often identified via the neighborhoods they reside in and consequently the subway lines associated with it.  When I used to live on the Upper East Side, the 4,5,6 trains were a constant reminder of how I was limited to that one subway line.  Naturally, it became easier to hangout with friends who lived on the Eastside of the city.  Those on the Westside associate themselves with the 2,3 or A,C,E trains - and would typically have "Westside hangouts."  Sure, it wasn't impossible to go cross-town but it took time (unless you were going to cab it everytime).  When I went to college at NYU - while dorming there, my friends and I hungout 99.9% of the time in Greenwich Village and Union Square (where my dorm was).  Since I had the good fortune of living on-campus, I rarely took the subway since walking to school and hanging out within the NYU area was quite convenient.  It wasn't until I graduated and needed to commute by subway to work that I realized how divided NYC was, simply by location, location, location.

Similarly, now that we're living at Grove Street - it is the same situation as any other NY'er (be it Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx, etc).  We too, are bounded by location and train.  Conveniently though, the PATH train runs along 6th Ave (33rd St, 23rd St, 14th St, 9th St, and Christopher St) as well as a separate line downtown at World Trade Center.  The perks of living at Grove Street are a relatively quick commute to the city, yet still having plenty of space in our condo.  It's a typical trade-off between space vs. convenience.  My time from leaving my condo door to stepping into my cubicle is generally about 25 minutes.  Now before you start thinking "Quick??!" - do note that after I get off at WTC PATH stop downtown, I need to walk about 8 minutes to my office and another 4 minutes to get through security and cut through the elevator traffic.  Without this walk, the commute can be as low as 10 minutes door-to-door since the PATH ride is about 7 minutes.

What if you worked in midtown?  I know of some people in my condo who work in midtown, and it's no sweat off their back.  They are able to get to work in generally about 35 minutes.  It's a 20 minute ride to 33rd street, and estimate a very generous 15 minutes of transferring onto the N,R,Q,W or B,D,F,V.  Unless you live within walking distance of your office building, a 35 minute commute door to door is quite good -- particularly when you do a cost-analysis benefit on what you pay in JC vs. Manhattan.  For us, we'd rather pay far less than Manhattan (our same condo would be 2-3x the price in Manhattan), and at the same time, have the feel of a developing vibrant community at Grove Street.  As you can see, accessibility into the city is no problem, and there are a number of good restaurants and cafes in the area - thus making the Grove Street area of JC a great way to spend the weekend without needing to venture into the city.  Shoprite and BJ's (as well as the Newport Mall) is right around the corner, making it very easy to buy groceries and necessities.

All in all, the PATH offers reasonable 24/7 flexibility - and is on-par with living in the farther parts of metro NYC (ie, Brooklyn, Queens, Harlem).

Welcome to the Grove Street (Jersey City) blog. 

So what is Grove Street (Jersey City)?  And where is it?  First off, and let's get it out of the way - yes, it is in New Jersey.  Once you're able to get past that, you'll realize that it is a mere 7 minute ride into downtown Manhattan, and only 20 minutes to midtown 33rd Street (also making stops at Christopher St, 9th, 14th, and 23rd Street) - making for a very short commute.  By car, it's just a 2 minute drive to the Holland Tunnel, which will whisk you across into the city in no time (grand total time of 5 minutes).  To be more specific, Grove Street is the name of the PATH station that anchors the surrounding neighborhood.  While there are a number of micro-neighborhoods within the Grove Street area (Powerhouse Arts District, Paulus Hook, Liberty Harbor, to name a few), this blog will focus on the neighborhood directly within an approximate 10 minute walk of the PATH station. Perhaps it is limited in scope, but because we live in this 10 minute walk radius, we will be able to provide focused information and thoughts on the Grove Street scene.

So why are we blogging about Grove Street JC?  We believe that this is an underappreciated, hidden gem of a neighborhood with gorgeous views of Manhattan.  Yet because of its NJ address, historically it has turned off many potential residents.  But arguably, if you were to live outside the island of Manhattan - Jersey City is just as close to the city as say Brooklyn or Queens.  In some cases, it's even closer and the commute is better because the Jersey City waterfront is directly west from downtown Manhattan.  Admittedly, Jersey City doesn't have quite the catchet of say, Brooklyn (yet).  Perhaps it never will.  But with the soaring prices of real estate (with no signs of severe slowing down in the city), first-time buyers and renters who are looking for a compelling value, proximity to the city, along with a rapidly developing neighborhood would do quite well to look into the Grove Street area (and yes, a Starbucks is coming soon, smack dab next to the PATH station -- this very well could be the defining mark of having "arrived").

Who are we?  For the sake of anonymity, we prefer not to reveal our identity but we will say that we are not affiliated or connected with any developers, brokers, or real estate people in any way.  Our only vested interest in Grove Street JC is that we (urban professional couple) do live in the Grove Street area.  Having lived in Manhattan for several years, we decided it was time for more room for our money, yet still wanted to be close enough to the city (where our jobs and social networks are).  We found Grove St to be the perfect juxtaposition of metropolitan chaos and suburban peace.  We can see this area really developing -- there has been a tremendous boom in construction in both luxury rentals and condominiums alike.  Buildings such as Waldo Lofts, A Condominiums, Grove Pointe, 150 Bay Street, 50 Columbus, Trump Plaza, Ivy House, Gulls Cove, Toll Brothers, and Liberty Harbor are bringing in an influx of Manhattanites who are discovering that Jersey City isn't so bad after all.  In fact, in the past 5 months we have been here, we are beginning to witness a steady influx of young families, urban professionals, and college students who are attracted to the quick commute, great neighborhood vibe, and low rents / condo prices (for new luxury developments with many, many amenities).  There are a number of condo/rental developments still under construction, and the prospect that Grove Street is on the up-and-up only excites us greatly (both from our own property investment in this area, as well as from a neighborhood viewpoint).

It is our desire to use this blog to continue to pave the way for Grove Street, to put a spotlight on the numerous new construction buildings, the eclectic mix of cute cafes and restaurants, and the ever expanding retail shopping.

We invite you to explore the Grove Street area of downtown Jersey City (which is quite a different neighborhood than say Newport), and to see what this rapidly developing neighborhood has to offer.  Please stay tuned as we will be providing more and more content on the area! Feel free to subscribe on the links to the left (either RSS feed or via email).